Looking for opinions on some thoughts going on in my head

Hi guys, so I've been thinking about some things in health and fitness, and I'm just looking to get some opinions on what you guys think.

Currently this is my daily routine

7:00am - wake up, have some cereal/fruit + protein shake
10:00am - Rice dish with chicken/kidney beans (I call it burrito guts)
12:30pm - Various balanced meal
3:00pm - fruit and protein shake
6:00pm (pre workout meal) - usually i try to get a big meal, like steak and potato, chicken and rice etc.
7:30pm - pre workout supplement
7:45pm -gym
9:30pm - (post workout meal) - protein shake/fruit or sometimes i cook double my pre workout meal and have that
11:00pm - approx bed time

So my thoughts here are, during my working hours from 8-6, I'm starving, i need to eat those meals, but for leaning out I'm thinking of just cutting out my pre and post workout meals, and/or make my pre workout meal just a banana and shake. The reason being is this is the easiest time for me to somewhat 'fast' although I'm not sure if this is a good idea because from what i know, pre and post meals are essential.

Does this seem like a very stupid idea? or can fasting before/after gym time be somewhat beneficial? It seems like it goes against everything I've learned, but may be the easiest way for me to loose a few lbs

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Originally Posted by jonathandd23

Hi guys, so I've been thinking about some things in health and fitness, and I'm just looking to get some opinions on what you guys think.

Currently this is my daily routine

7:00am - wake up, have some cereal/fruit + protein shake
10:00am - Rice dish with chicken/kidney beans (I call it burrito guts)
12:30pm - Various balanced meal
3:00pm - fruit and protein shake
6:00pm (pre workout meal) - usually i try to get a big meal, like steak and potato, chicken and rice etc.
7:30pm - pre workout supplement
7:45pm -gym
9:30pm - (post workout meal) - protein shake/fruit or sometimes i cook double my pre workout meal and have that
11:00pm - approx bed time

So my thoughts here are, during my working hours from 8-6, I'm starving, i need to eat those meals, but for leaning out I'm thinking of just cutting out my pre and post workout meals, and/or make my pre workout meal just a banana and shake. The reason being is this is the easiest time for me to somewhat 'fast' although I'm not sure if this is a good idea because from what i know, pre and post meals are essential.

Does this seem like a very stupid idea? or can fasting before/after gym time be somewhat beneficial? It seems like it goes against everything I've learned, but may be the easiest way for me to loose a few lbs

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Might need to be more precise with what you are eating, calorie or macro wise. You say you have a big pre-workout meal, and then sometimes double that as post workout. So how big are we talking? And then double that... Is that double big? I like to center alot of my calories around gym-time, but I don't gym right before bed. If I were to gym at 8pm and bed by 11, I'd probably eat consistently during the day every few hours, and have a light pre-workout 'meal' and a light postworkout - both with protein/carbs. It seems to me you might be starving during the day because you're not eating much, and then make up for it with the larger pre and post workout meals. Which is not that bad to do - but if you want to lose weight, you might need to make adjustments.

What are your goals? How much do you want to lose? Do you really need to lose? do you do cardio? have you in the past? Have you ever been leaner than current? etc etc.

hey steve, thanks for your detailed answer, i was really just curious if that having small/ no meals at all around gym time can be beneficiary for maintaing mass in the hopes of losing excess fat. As per the pre workout meal, when i say "big" i just mean i have a solid rice/potato and chicken/steak/fish (usually around 70g carb, 50g protein and whatever fat comes with the meat) and some veggies. Also to clarify the 'starving' .. i don't starve at work, i eat every 2 hours (my break times are 10, 12 30, and 3) and i eat till I'm full, however when i have lowered my food intake, i starve and get really hungry probably because my job is, for the most part labour.

The main reason i had this thought was because when i come straight home, i could take my pre supp and be at the gym by 7, stay for a little longer till 9. come home, shower, and either go to bed or have a protein shake, and that would be a lot easier rather then during the day. but i am scared that i might see some strength diminish, as well as muscle

I have been leaner before, i did the keto diet for the 200lb man, and it worked great! after the 2nd week, fat just melted, even my stomach shrunk because i was barely eating ( i feel that drinking mostly shakes had something to do with it) but my strength went down the shitter. as well as i did loose more mass then i thought i should have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonathandd23

hey steve, thanks for your detailed answer, i was really just curious if that having small/ no meals at all around gym time can be beneficiary for maintaing mass in the hopes of losing excess fat. As per the pre workout meal, when i say "big" i just mean i have a solid rice/potato and chicken/steak/fish (usually around 70g carb, 50g protein and whatever fat comes with the meat) and some veggies. Also to clarify the 'starving' .. i don't starve at work, i eat every 2 hours (my break times are 10, 12 30, and 3) and i eat till I'm full, however when i have lowered my food intake, i starve and get really hungry probably because my job is, for the most part labour.

The main reason i had this thought was because when i come straight home, i could take my pre supp and be at the gym by 7, stay for a little longer till 9. come home, shower, and either go to bed or have a protein shake, and that would be a lot easier rather then during the day. but i am scared that i might see some strength diminish, as well as muscle

I have been leaner before, i did the keto diet for the 200lb man, and it worked great! after the 2nd week, fat just melted, even my stomach shrunk because i was barely eating ( i feel that drinking mostly shakes had something to do with it) but my strength went down the shitter. as well as i did loose more mass then i thought i should have.

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I would eat in such a way that your workouts don't suffer at all. If that means centering more calories pre-workout, then do it. You might have to experiment - especially since you aren't necessarily dieting for a show, or trying to drop 30 pounds. If you're job is mostly labour, then yes, makes sense you need food all day. I had a job like that for a few years 15 years ago. It was tough, because nightime workouts were tough after a long day of work - no matter how much I ate. But you do what you have to do. You'll lose strength, but not necessarily muscle if you eat below maintenance. Mass moves mass.

You'll notice that if you eat less after your workout, you'll quickly find yourself eating more in the morning the next day to make up for it. In order to lose weight, you'll have to be eating less overall. The only difference is depending when you take away calories, when you'll feel it most (at work, vs. at the gym). If it's just a matter of a couple pounds, then a slight shift in calories will do it.

There are so many ways people do things. Some people seem to believe fasted workouts work for muscle growth, and other benefits. I'm not sure I'm ready to believe that yet! I need full glycogen, or my workouts do suffer at least a little. And there is nothing worse than working out when your workout isn't 110%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonathandd23

hey steve, thanks for your detailed answer, i was really just curious if that having small/ no meals at all around gym time can be beneficiary for maintaing mass in the hopes of losing excess fat. As per the pre workout meal, when i say "big" i just mean i have a solid rice/potato and chicken/steak/fish (usually around 70g carb, 50g protein and whatever fat comes with the meat) and some veggies. Also to clarify the 'starving' .. i don't starve at work, i eat every 2 hours (my break times are 10, 12 30, and 3) and i eat till I'm full, however when i have lowered my food intake, i starve and get really hungry probably because my job is, for the most part labour.

The main reason i had this thought was because when i come straight home, i could take my pre supp and be at the gym by 7, stay for a little longer till 9. come home, shower, and either go to bed or have a protein shake, and that would be a lot easier rather then during the day. but i am scared that i might see some strength diminish, as well as muscle

I have been leaner before, i did the keto diet for the 200lb man, and it worked great! after the 2nd week, fat just melted, even my stomach shrunk because i was barely eating ( i feel that drinking mostly shakes had something to do with it) but my strength went down the shitter. as well as i did loose more mass then i thought i should have.

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If you lost strength and muscle mass you did not follow the keto diet correctly. One thing you need to do is to decide what your specific short term goal is and create a plan to work towards that. From what I see there is no plan and thus no goal will be reached. You can get lean and still maintain most of your strength...if you run the diet correctly. Ive pulled my best ever deadlift 705lbs at 225lbs bw 2 weeks out from a show..thats 14 weeks on keto.

P

well i do have one thing to say about the keto, i did change my workouts, rather then pushing heavy weights with lower reps i dropped the weight, upped the reps, went for more of a pump/burn feeling, and when i went back to trying to move heavy weights ( roughly 3 months later) i couldn't push the same, i guess i blamed the keto when really the training style was probably a culprit as well, but i don't think that explains the mass loss that i had.

I like that ideaology about goals, because i don't have any goals, no goals will be achieved. Starting now, i plan to maintain strength with a clean diet in the hopes of some fat loss over the summer and ready for my next bulk in the fall/winter.

Changing how you train from heavy to lighter with more reps is what caused all your problems. How you build muscle is how you keep muscle...training doesnt change much off season to pre-contest. What you actually did by dropping the weight and doing more reps was to tell your body you really dont need the extra muscle because you are no longer lifting heavy and because it requires plenty of calories to maintain it which by the way you dont have because you are dieting the body basically just gets rid of it...bye bye muscle, bye bye strength.

P

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Originally Posted by Praetorian

Changing how you train from heavy to lighter with more reps is what caused all your problems. How you build muscle is how you keep muscle...training doesnt change much off season to pre-contest. What you actually did by dropping the weight and doing more reps was to tell your body you really dont need the extra muscle because you are no longer lifting heavy and because it requires plenty of calories to maintain it which by the way you dont have because you are dieting the body basically just gets rid of it...bye bye muscle, bye bye strength.

P

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Thanks Ted for the golden nugget here!

Eric