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Chris was great...a big man with good size and potential to turn pro with better conditioning and prob more size for his frame....Larry...well he was awesome and looked like a pro NOW,,,,full package...great muscularity, lines, symmetry and conditioned like a pro...since we are giving opinions
I wasn't there and pics don't really transfer that well from actually being there but from pics, Larry, as razor said, israel material now.
Then please go ahead and try to justify my placing at this year's nationals, or for that matter the placing of the entire HW line up!! and why did Mark not win?Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_d
Unfortunately there is absolutely no accountability, and it's a travesty of what the sport is suppose to be.
I certainly can't justify your placings... You wouldn't have even had a place if it were not for someone noticing you didn't get called out yet. Obviously someone goofed big time there. Those things shouldn't happen, but they happen even at the pro stage. They should really have systems in place to prevent that from happening - even if it means making the pre-judging take longer. For example, all judges should have a say on all call outs ... not just the head judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner#22
I agree with mark coming 2nd though. I liked zane better and understand how the majority would have agreed. I liked mark best when he won the heavies a few years ago. He's made changes to his physique, but not necessarily favorable - still a great bodybuilder and I expect to see him win a pro card at some point in his career - . Zane was off though, and I think a guy like that could really come in shape and have a commanding win. I don't always agree with judges decisions... But I back them up when I do. I can accept someone saying a guy like you didn't deserve practically last place. Or someone like rob graham saying he perhaps deserved a 1st call out. But I can't agree with saying chris deserved to turn pro and beat a guy like larry.
and you are right !!!Chris was soft in the morning....i mean ...very soft.....nobody can win a national and turn pro with this condition (morning) at night he was better...but still have to improve .....BUT yes he got an incredible physique and can turn pro sooner then later......As for Mark....sorry guys but he got a gut like samer zebib.....its going to be very hard for him to win if he doesnt choose to drop some weights and get rid of this stomach......BUT again.....he got everything to win a national....but he looked like he try hard to go for the size even if the conditionning was very very good.....in this show 2 guy had a flawless condionning and it was Larry and Greg......Antoine won the show cause of his overall physique and incredible unbeatable legs.....he still got to work on conditionning a bit but hes very close from his goal....
You are absolutely dead on here bro...nice post!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicknroll
Well Zane does have an impressive physique in the lower body, it is also because he as very short legs and a long torso. Richman may need to think about comming in a few lbs lighter and harder to really be noticed but he was in better condition than Zane was. Zane's arms and delts at this contest looked very provincial I must say, and his legs did not look as impressive when viewing the sweep from the side. Richman has the upperbody mass Zane is Lacking. C'mon are people winning contest now because they are all legs? I believe you have to have decent leg developement but you better have exceptional upperbody developement.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_d
And I totally disagree. Decent legs aren't good enough IMO to be passing out pro cards. I don't think anyone has won with just legs but I'd rather see a guy with superior leg development won over a guy that has better upper body development, conditioning being equal of course.There are dozens more guys who have far better upper bodies than lower bodies at every level. That makes them less special IMO. But that's why competitive bodybuilding is so subjective and that's why I cringe when people call it a sport. There are too many different opnions on what constitutes the 'best' body come contest time. Not surprisingly my legs are my best bodypart when I am healthy :(.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner#22
And I'd have to totally agree with p22... It actually does seem that way about the importance of legs. I've noticed this in the past few years, and it's actually starting to morph our bodybuilders, lol. "Symmetry" by definition of matching left and right, top to bottom has changed over the years. All of a sudden what used to be 'wow, his legs are over sized for his upper body' is now 'holy, his legs are huge, lets not look at anyone else!' ... I exagerate, but still - that is what is happening. If you don't have legs, you aren't winning or placing at nationals. I said this in an earlier post. Sure, if you have an upper body to match, its not just your legs bringing you there. But guys like zane actually won purely on legs. Antoine probably one his class based on out sizing partlow's legs. Danny garron has insane legs, and that no doubt helped him into the top spots in all his classes.
But take someone like Rob Graham - his overpowering delts and arms didn't bring him into the top spot. However, you put that equivalent strength into his lower half, and all of a sudden he could have stringy arms and likely make a first call out or top 3 with the same degree of over powering legs.
I am not saying this is wrong, its just the way it is. Same as in figure where they decided years ago you had to have capped delts, and lean sleak lines in the lower half, etc... They used to say a 'y' shape was figure and the 'x' shape was bodybuilding. But really, after a while the girls start looking like super heroes (which is cool and all), but how is it symmetrical when they stop working out 4-5 bodyparts altogether just to become 'symmetrical'. Biceps and triceps are a no-no for figure, but delts, back, some degree of legs and calfs are a must. but not muscular legs of course...
Anyway, these same concepts are starting to get into the bodybuilding world. Most often, a bodybuilder will need to make legs a primary focus.
This exact same thing happened in our LH class with Jason Green. He was called out with me in the second call out and before we started to pose was put to the back again and then was never called out until the last call out? I honestly think if it wasn't for his friends going apeshit yelling his number and name, he would not have gotten a call out period. It's like they scratched his name out the first time and forget about him.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_d
I think Steve is right though. Symetry seems to be secondary to huge legs, even if the upper isn't on par, or on par conditioning wise. Zane and I are pretty much direct opposites, I over power up top and he over powers in the legs. When those two are put on the stage at the same time, legs wins. Hopefully in another year my legs are just that much better as they were between Prov and Nat's. At this point there was really no one outsizing me on legs, just deeper separation, but my own upper body can make my legs look smaller than they are by myself, but side to side pics I wasn't giving up overall mass, I just have more of a HW upper and LH lower right now. Stayed tuned though!