2010 Canadian National Figure, Fitness & Masters Championships OFFICAL THREAD

[steve_d]

I agree - two completely separate judging panels, or ideally two separate events. Fitness/figure/bikini is definitely a large enough show for it to run solo.

The national panel is basically similar year to year, and basically the same panel judges the bodybuilding nationals as the figure nationals. To qualify to be a national level judge, you have to test at national level. And since figure is so new, the national level judges have basically gotten to be national level judges by testing the bodybuilding shows of the past.

Obviously that is flawed in many ways - but it hurts the figure girls more than the bodybuilders since at least most of the panel are qualified based on proving themselves as good bodybuilding judges. There should be a seperate figure/fitness/bikini vs. bodybuilding panel for sure, at that level at least. But then there would still be the problem at local/procincial shows.

It's too bad - although it is what it is. I am quite sure they will be seperate events next year, but still, the national level judges for figure should strictly be high level figure/bikini/fitness athletes, or at least individuals who really have an eye for it and who follow the sport religiously. Same idea with bodybuilding judges, however I think that is basically true of most judges (ie, they follow bodybuilding religiously)

[steve_d]

[QUOTE=fitnessbyzara;396463]QUOTE]


Saw you on stage, you looked great! Really sux about how they did the night show without giving the top 5 like they did in the other categories! Wow! I wasn't aware they did that - a shame to say the least! Bodybuilding top 5 got to do their routine, figure top 5 were even judged for a round 3. Fitness got their routines done as well...Bikini should have been just the same.

[Brennylee]

The night show was such an organizational mess with the awards, they probably forgot to call all 5 out for Bikini.

Zara, you rocked the morning presentation! You could do seminars for that walk

[BigGuns21]

Steve you've made some good points about the judging for sure. In a total unbiased world you probably would have won overall in Sudbury, but Kip being a super heavy was so imposing on stage he basically commanded attention, but was clearly there for Provincial qualifying only and was not peaked. Your symetry was good and you were the hardest physique in the show (but I was way bigger :P haha). And to be honest your calves were probably the same size as his! Adonus had Kip beat easily if his colour was better and he was a bit dryer, minor mistakes I'm sure he'll have rectified next year!
It's hard to really tell by looking at the pics and not being there, but it was evident that Chris owned the show. Eastman looked way too soft for his position personally, but I am no judge.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as an ubiased judge, this is human nature and it will never alter. I remember specifically in my first show one of the judges saying if you compete here next year and make improvements, we'll see those improvements you've made, they will stand out to us. This is probably a true statement, but totally wrong for a judge to do. This means when guys like Steve and I go to another town, no judge has seen what we've done throughout the off season, but may have their attention drawn to a particluar local competitor that has and cause a skewed view for proper judgement.
There is really only one solution, train your ass off and diet your ass off and make sure the judges can't ingnore what you've brought to the stage and hope its what it takes to win and even though we all want the 1st place don't forget the real victory should be a personal one that you have brought the best physique you possibly could to the stage and are constantly improving yourself.

[tpay]

Ok folks....

All I want to do is say thanks. Prisoner 22 for the vote of confidence, Prae for the kind words, Dryvergrl for just being the most awesome and supportive chick ever (yeah you should totally do bodybuilding),and everyone for their support.

This was a very tough year for me personally in many ways, the car accident being the final straw of sorts!

I was happy to be there and thrilled to place third in such a tough and talented class of athletes!

Congrats to all that took the stage!!!

Tpay

[OPA Girl]

[steve_d]

Steve you've made some good points about the judging for sure. In a total unbiased world you probably would have won overall in Sudbury, but Kip being a super heavy was so imposing on stage he basically commanded attention, but was clearly there for Provincial qualifying only and was not peaked. Your symetry was good and you were the hardest physique in the show (but I was way bigger :P haha). And to be honest your calves were probably the same size as his! Adonus had Kip beat easily if his colour was better and he was a bit dryer, minor mistakes I'm sure he'll have rectified next year!
It's hard to really tell by looking at the pics and not being there, but it was evident that Chris owned the show. Eastman looked way too soft for his position personally, but I am no judge.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as an ubiased judge, this is human nature and it will never alter. I remember specifically in my first show one of the judges saying if you compete here next year and make improvements, we'll see those improvements you've made, they will stand out to us. This is probably a true statement, but totally wrong for a judge to do. This means when guys like Steve and I go to another town, no judge has seen what we've done throughout the off season, but may have their attention drawn to a particluar local competitor that has and cause a skewed view for proper judgement.
There is really only one solution, train your ass off and diet your ass off and make sure the judges can't ingnore what you've brought to the stage and hope its what it takes to win and even though we all want the 1st place don't forget the real victory should be a personal one that you have brought the best physique you possibly could to the stage and are constantly improving yourself.

Amen! Make yourself undeniable...Make it so that bias will not be enough to take away that trophy. That's my plan for next year. It will be the first time at nationals for me, no one will have seen me there before, but I want to stand out in the opposite way...as in: "who the hell is THAT guy?"

[steve_d]

Also, the thing about the bias from seeing you another year, is so true. I remember test judging and than judging a show basically months apart. The same people that competed in the 2nd show, you couldn't help but remember them, or notice them, because you recognize them. Its the same reason why friends and family always say "you got ripped off"...because when your brother or wife is on stage, you can't help but look at them twice as long as anyone else. You notice all the qualities they have, etc. Its nothing major, but when things are close, it sure has an effect.

Judges just need to realize this, and have a fresh mind always. This effect is HUGE in figure when you have 2 rounds, 1 piece and 2 piece. (3 rounds for nationals). You end up having the same people in the top call out each round because you remember what they looked like in 2 pieces. For me personally, I tried to have a fresh mind for the 2nd round when I test judged. I ended up having a girl come in 7th in a 1 peice when I had her 2nd in a 1 piece...I remember getting slack for that. But I wrote down in my notes exactly why this happened, and it truly is possible. (or at least it should be, or else get rid of the 1 piece).

So anyway, all this to say that bias can't be avoided - or at least its very hard to. I also feel placing individuals the same way all the time biases the judges towards the winner. Its kinda easy to notice someone when they are standing in the middle. And 90% of the time, a head judge will throw who they think the winner should be in the middle. Seems that will give that same "favoritism" bias. Not sure if this is the process at nationals, but at least its what I noticed at provincial and local shows.

[ange_d]

[QUOTE=BigGuns21;396484]
There is really only one solution, train your ass off and diet your ass off and make sure the judges can't ingnore what you've brought to the stage and hope its what it takes to win and even though we all want the 1st place don't forget the real victory should be a personal one that you have brought the best physique you possibly could to the stage and are constantly improving yourself.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that!
That's my plan...see you all next year!

[Andre Gregoire]

There is really only one solution, train your ass off and diet your ass off and make sure the judges can't ingnore what you've brought to the stage and hope its what it takes to win and even though we all want the 1st place don't forget the real victory should be a personal one that you have brought the best physique you possibly could to the stage and are constantly improving yourself.

100% agree, if you want to win the only way is to be vastly superior to everyone else in your class so there is no room for bias.


For me as long as I look better than my last showing and I don't place last I am happy.